Transcript – ABC RN Breakfast with Kylie Morris – 8 July

Shadow Minister for Social Services and Indigenous Australians – Transcript – ABC RN Breakfast
Senator Kerrynne Liddle
Shadow Minister for Social Services
Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians
Senator for South Australia

Transcript
ABC RN Breakfast
8 July 2025

Topics: Kumanjayi Walker Coroner’s Report; Yoorrook Justice Commission Report; Quotas

E&OE

Kylie Morris
Now a warning to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners that this story will mention the name of an Indigenous person who’s died, and that name is used with the permission of their family. The long running inquest into the fatal police shooting of Kumanjayi Walker has ended with the Northern Territory coroner concluding the 2019 death of the teenager was avoidable and at the hands of a quote ‘racist’ constable. In November 2019, Kumanjayi Walker was shot three times by then police constable Zachary Rolfe after the 19 year old stabbed the police officer in the shoulder with a pair of scissors during an attempted arrest. Mr. Rolfe was later tried by a jury and subsequently acquitted of all charges, including murder. The coroner will continue to deliver her findings today, which includes 32 key recommendations. Joining me now to discuss is Kerrynne Liddle, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians and Liberal Senator for South Australia. Welcome back to Radio National breakfast, Kerrynne.

Senator Liddle
Thank you, Kylie, and good morning to listeners.

Kylie Morris
Now, what is your initial reaction to the findings made by the NT coroner, Elizabeth Armitage, including that Zachary Rolfe was racist and that she could not quote, “exclude the possibility that racist attitudes were a contributing cause of Kumanjayi’s death”.

Senator Liddle
Well, of course, everyone should be saddened by what the coroner has found. Kumanjayi Walker died in 2019. The family had waited five years to hear that his death was avoidable. It was a very difficult day yesterday, I’m sure, for the family, and I’d like to acknowledge the Warlpiri-Luritja pelple and their families. This was a terrible thing to hear and I’d like to acknowledge that first up.

Kylie Morris
I mean, you say that everyone should be saddened, and of course, that is true, but for someone like yourself in a position of power to enact policy or raise policy. I mean, I guess we should start with something very significant, which is does the Federal Opposition have confidence in the Northern Territory Police at this stage?

Senator Liddle
Well, there were 600 pages of – more than 600 pages of – findings and 33 recommendations have come from that. There is much in that report from better police training, recruitment screening for childhood conditions like FASD, that’s foetal alcohol syndrome disorder, and other cognitive conditions and other conditions. Racism was also raised. You know, there are many things in that report, and I was very, very pleased to see the coroner also look comprehensively at some of the drivers and protective factors that will support people to ensure that this does not happen again. That is a really important part of this, and it is for the Northern Territory Government to look very closely at the findings, because they are in charge in the territory of the police and protective services. But the Commonwealth does have a role to play, because the Commonwealth will often fund the drivers of those things, the protective factors that the coroner also talked about.

Kylie Morris
But do you not have a role to play as well in the sense that you’re the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians who are directly affected by what the coroner has identified as the, quote, “hallmarks of institutional racism within the Northern Territory police”. I understand that it’s a multi-layered, you know, very long ruling with all kinds of suggestions. But isn’t that something that immediately garners your attention?

Senator Liddle
Well, it talks about racism, and it’s very clear about the view about the former police officer, Mr. Rolfe, you know, that has been made clear. I also point to the coroner is also talking about the kind of protective factors that will actually address those things. She talked about a racism strategy that I understand is currently underway. She talked about more community policing, and I’m a huge supporter of community policing. You know, she talked about all sorts of things, a plan for youth, she talked about mental health service delivery. She talked about, you know, a better complaints mechanism. All of those things are really, really important to empower people to speak up sooner and to be heard sooner. That’s really critically important. And I hope the Northern Territory Government is listening. What we at the Commonwealth level need to be listening to is reading through those findings comprehensively and understanding what our role is in that, and I believe our role actually is, and I’ve been saying this for a very long time, since I’ve been in Parliament – not a very long time only three years – is that we have to focus on the Commonwealth’s role in funding the things that provide the drivers and that support the drivers and the protective factors for people, and they are the programmes – we saw in Alice Springs, $300 million in the last three years going into Central Australia. But one of the complaints I had was, what about the remote communities? How much of that money was distributed to remote communities to support and empower those remote communities? That’s a really important part of making sure that people are stronger in raising these issues.

Kylie Morris
You’re listening to Radio National breakfast where Kerrynne Liddle, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians and Liberal Senator for South Australia, is my guest. Yesterday, Kerrynne, and before the findings were released, the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy, told me the matter had to be quote, ‘above politics’. Do you agree? And what does that mean, in effect, for you?

Senator Liddle
Well, what that means is – I mean, I talk to Mal – I’ve talked to Malarndirri since the election, there are things that we would absolutely agree on, and there are things that we probably wouldn’t. And one of the things I would say is we would be committed to ensuring that every death in custody is investigated, that at every opportunity these things are responded to. But it is also important, and I go back to I’m sure – Malarndirri McCarthy as the minister and myself as a shadow minister, both of us spent our childhoods entirely in Central Australia and in the Northern Territory – we would want to both work on, what do we do to make sure that the Commonwealth role is clear and that we actually make sure that the programmes that we are currently funding or that we would fund into the future will actually ensure better outcomes for people, making sure that those services that are provided are delivering as effectively as they can possibly deliver, and that the people who need it most actually have access to those services. Not just that they’re available, but they can actually access them, because people in remote communities have additional barriers, including barriers of language, but I also go: to we need to get the kids in school, We need to get kids off the street, because they provide important protective factors for intervention with children and with families.

Kylie Morris
You’ve said now is the time for practical action, not symbolism, to improve outcomes. Where should the government begin? I mean, there are pages and pages of findings. You’ve referenced some of the, you know, novel policies, some of the policies that are already in place. But what needs to happen this week, next week to prevent this from happening again?

Senator Liddle
Well, look, I’ve looked through the recommendations, and there are some in there that are already underway, and that’s a terrific thing. There are some that can be acted on relatively quickly. There are some that the Minister will have to look at and see what her role is in that. But certainly I know that, and I’ve asked this question, the Commonwealth have in the last few years given a significant amount of money to the Northern Territory police force through the Northern Territory Government. And they need to also ask, how are you actually deploying that money? And what’s the prioritisation of the deployment of that money? It has to be, get on with the stuff that’s already in place now. Get on with the stuff that is going to get a faster response. But there are things such as a call from the coroner for a 30% proportionate recruitment of Aboriginal people within the Northern Territory police force. Now that’s going to take sometime, and that that would be around about representative of the amount of Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory, but that’s going to take time, but there needs to be a proper strategy. You just can’t say here’s an opportunity for work. You have to make sure that the environment that they’re coming into is conducive to sustaining their employment and their contribution, which will be critical to supporting police officers and the people that they actually sign up to serve.

Kylie Morris
Kerrynne just to another issue, and last week, we saw the Victorian Yoorrook Justice Commission hand down its findings, the first of its kind, truth telling commission describe what happened to first peoples in the state as a genocide. Is that a word that rings true for the experience of Indigenous people around the country in your judgement?

Senator Liddle
I think we have to recognise, if we’re talking about truth telling, that people’s experience has been different right across the country, wherever they are and whatever their experience was. Genocide, I would have to say, I’m not sure that it was genocide in every single case, and I’m actually not convinced by that, but I want to say that what I’m focused on is actually not about labelling things and focusing on those. I want practical action. I go back to well, people want to talk about those things, and people want to talk about other things that I’m less interested in. I’m interested in that today, tomorrow, for the children that are living on the streets, for those adults that have kidney disease, for those children that are deaf before they even get to primary school. They’re the issues that I want to be focused on.

Kylie Morris
Kerrynne, let’s go to the recommendations then, of the Yoorrook commission. Among the 100 was a call for a Redress Scheme to compensate First Peoples for the injustices outlined in the report. Do you support that?

Senator Liddle
Well, that’s a matter for the Victorian Government. That’s their commission.

Kylie Morris
But surely matters of genocide and questions of redress are issues that have nationwide applicability. This is – it’s difficult, isn’t it, to ring fence this as a Victorian matter?

Senator Liddle
I go back to it was the Victorian Government that went down the path of this truth telling commission. It is for the Victorian Government to respond to the findings and determine what it does with those findings.

Kylie Morris
Senator, finally, on a separate matter. There’s been a lot of discussion in recent days around how to encourage more women into the Liberal Party. Would you support gender quotas?

Senator Liddle
I support getting terrific women into parliament, regardless of the party and I’ll be doing, as will our Leader of the Opposition Sussan Ley, everything possible to ensure that we have more women, not just preselected, but more women elected to Parliament.

Kylie Morris
So is that a yes or no? Would you see gender quotas as a mechanism to achieve that?

Senator Liddle
I want to see the very best people in Parliament, and I think there are plenty of women out there who should nominate through our processes and can get into parliament. I did.

Kylie Morris
Kerrynne, thank you for joining us